Designated Judge for the Interception of Communications has revealed that there is no way to verify whether the applications they receive from law enforcement are truthful or not

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:45:44 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

According to Nkabinde, there are now several cases in the public record where law enforcement officers lied to get interception orders against targets such as journalists and prominent businesspeople. “Undisputed evidence was before Court that in certain instances the agencies can obtain fictional intelligence report about an individual,” stated Nkabinde.

Which is very likely the identical problem faced by other democracies around the world. It is not about just ticking boxes, and abuse of the system breaks down trust in the justice system as well as for law enforcement. Often for many democracies, an independent justice system and media organisations, are their last bastions of democracy and citizen rights.

See RICA is a joke

#southafrica #RICA #surveillance #privacy

The Designated Judge for the Interception of Communications, Justice Bess Nkabinde, has highlighted major problems with South Africa’s lawful interception regime.

southafrica RICA surveillance

show all 20 comentários

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 14:58:45 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer This is the problem of republic political regime as they goes down in corruption. I think it is unfixable due to human nature. The well proven system are the direct democracy with citizens integrated to the country army so that the government can't goes against its citizens. In that way the most evil regime is avoided but it stays highly unjust.

Tue, 14 Sep 2021 15:36:34 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer The problem the media has lost his independence. And people forgot that the root of liberalism is the equality of everyone in the judicial system.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 05:37:55 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@BlackTortoise maybe not globally - we've been very lucky for the media to investigate and break stories multiple times around the world for political corruption, abuse by big corporates, etc. Yes not to say they are fully independent, but many democracies are still hanging on today because of media information that reached the public. Citizens usually cannot rely on politicians as their representatives, as they've long been captured by lobbyists...

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 05:40:33 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@BlackTortoise citizens are part of any army as that is where they are recruited from, but the problem comes when an army is loyal to presidents or prime ministers instead of proper constitutions. Many countries actually use their army as the oppressor. Absolute discipline does not equal the best form of democracy.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:56:34 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer Sure but what I want to say is not a army of professional but a militia army (in that sense they are less likely to obey to the prime ministers if they are against the population). So the person are not here to work forever in the army but only to be form. If they have a good repartitions among the ethnic in the countries the abuse are limited. Every countries need an army but professional army always goes bad, as they work for the entities who paid them like mercenaries.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 14:00:57 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer Unfortunately the mainstream media and social media that concentrate the major part of us are actually under control of few people of interest at least for the part of the world I know the best which is what we call the "Occident". I don't say that it doesn't exist alternate media but their audience is a small minority in general. Now politician said blatant lies without hiding it and it is a new step in the "Occidental" countries 1/2

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 14:04:11 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer The concentration in media are largely increase recently. At least in France for example they are 7 people who control about 90% of the medias and the government finance also the main media and a relatively important part of small media. So they will never tell the truth if it endanger theirs customers. I think that the "Occident" will soon rejoin the level of corruption of African countries in less than a decade of time. 2/2

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 14:59:22 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@BlackTortoise I would not say a professional army is always bad - it depends on where their allegiance lies, an individual (who could be a good or bad person), or a Constitution.

Agreed that many media houses are owned by a few individuals, but there are also excellent investigative media houses whose business is not general everyday news, but rather specifically investigating cases of organised corruption and similar incidents. I think here of M&G and Noseweek specifically in South Africa, and more recently I've been similar exposures by ProPubublica in the USA. Without the awareness created, I doubt these issues would have been made known to the public, and whether the investigations and commissions would have come about.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:16:41 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer I agreed that they are really good independent media but their influence is limited in comparison to other media. So if their news are not transmit upward, it is not enough to imply a change in a judgement or in a political decisions. The important minority must be reach in order to have a strong impact. 1/2

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:23:17 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer About military, the problem is your are strongly influence by the entities that paid you. So you will have initiative to execute order from this entities. I found the best way to guarantee allegiance is by self interest of the person. Truly moral human are a small minority if we consider the Milgram experiment as correct. Maybe it is possible to reach a good effect in correctly separate power inside the state. 2/2

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:33:21 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@BlackTortoise true, but usually the State pays the military, not an individual political leader or group. So their allegiance is to the State. Yes human morality is a problem as we saw in WW2 with the Nazis - there are other pressures often at play that make it difficult for individuals to exercise their morality.

Yes, a functional state should have a balance of power between a judiciary, the law-making elements, and it's administration of government. But of course often corruption, nepotism, etc tends to sway things. Look at what happened in South Africa a few years back where that culture took hold and ended up in a State Capture situation, that is still being unwound today. All the institutions, such as even a Public Protector's Office were in place, yet many of the presidential appointments were allowed to be made that resulted in a State Capture. In this case it was media elements who broke the stories and revealed what was going on behind the scenes, which prompted a public outcry.

Any good system seemingly can be corrupted by rotten apples.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 15:43:28 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@gadgeteer I only look vaguely about South Africa and effectively the situation worsen. In France several laws which the UN Human Right have strongly condemn have been pass by force by the state and counter-power doesn't work anymore. Today in a lot of countries we see the same thing at lower level than South Africa excluding Australia that goes to a kind of fascist state in my opinion.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:00:34 -0300

Mike Carbine

MikeCarbine@freespeechextremist.com

@BlackTortoise @gadgeteer The larger and more left a Government is, the more corruption there will be. Simple as.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:08:21 -0300

BlackTortoise

BlackTortoise@mastodon.explore-visions.com

@MikeCarbine @gadgeteer For me it is another topic. But I thinks it is true as a study show that the greater part a government is in the GDP the higher rate is the corruption. Nevertheless I also believe that a state is necessary as the law of the strong is worse than a moderate level of corruption. The problem is the trade-off between the two aspect.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:21:21 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Mike Carbine no, I can't agree with that - the same hold true for the right then but pure logic. The further away from the centre, the more corruption there will be. I can't see why an extreme left would be any worse an extreme right. Anything extreme is not usually good for the rest

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:23:54 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Too much power without proper accountability, corrupts. There has to be checks and balances.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:36:58 -0300

Mike Carbine

MikeCarbine@freespeechextremist.com

@gadgeteer What is extreme right? In America the only country I give a rats ass about, the political right is for smaller government, following the intent of the Constitution, and reducing regulations to our capitalist economy. Oh how scary. Having free markets and not a bloated centralized authoritarian government has proven to provide the most personal freedom to the individual in all of human history. Government's only moral job is to protect the individual's right's. Not any of the control shit they all do.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:39:14 -0300

Mike Carbine

MikeCarbine@freespeechextremist.com

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 17:17:27 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Mike Carbine well the "extreme right" in other countries is not the same thing at all. So why make it only one country out of 150+ countries? Your statement was a general one, and I'm saying we can never just generalise that left of the centre is always worse than right of the centre. What is automatically worse? I'm saying two extremes (left and right) are worse than having two main parties closer to the middle. Living in a community, or a society, is unfortunately all about compromises. Living with any group means some group norms apply whether that be driving on a side of the road, or not stealing from others. Unless you live on your own island, there is just no such thing as absolute freedoms. Civilised societies also have laws against libel, assault, etc. It's why in some countries in Africa they've run out of fish in their lakes and now people are starving - no fishing quotas. So sometime sit is about balancing individual versus group rights.

So yes maybe I see it differently - Government by us is here to protect us as citizens for the good of the collective whole. That does mean we have fishing, hunting, traffic, and others so that we all get along and survive. Even my rights on my own property are limited in that I can't murder someone, I can't make a loud noise after 11pm at night. Those laws were voted on and passed by democratic majorities. I may not like them all, but I abide by them and expect others to also. Our Constitution make sit illegal too to discriminate on age, religion, race, gender, etc - again we the people voted for that, and now we stand by it. We choose to limit certain freedoms in the interest of the collective whole, and we expect others treat us the same way.

Wed, 15 Sep 2021 17:26:32 -0300

Danie van der Merwe

gadgeteer@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Mike Carbine on extreme right - well here in South Africa we had extreme right standing for one religion and race, although we said it could be separate development. It was called Apartheid. That got voted out by the majority, and has been replaced with a new Constitution guaranteeing equal rights for all. So today those on the extreme left and right, both get prosecuted for crossing that line. It's what the majority of the country wants, and that is why I say the left and right can both be wrong. We've seen people labelled terrorists, who then were known as liberation fighters. That's a problem created by extreme lefts and rights. Which is why I have seen why both extremes can be bad. It is a lot better having a majority more in the centre, and looking for middle ground to work together, than to sit at either extreme just believing the other extreme is wrong.